The presentation will draw on an evaluation of the long term financial trends of organic livestock producers compared with conventional based on farm-business survey data. Whilst the standards and principles of organic farming state that feeding strategy should rely as much as possible on feed from the holding this is not necessarily the case. For lowland dairy concentrate feed costs have risen since 2007/08 to on average more than 25% total business costs of milk production, whereas for beef and sheep farms purchased concentrate has also risen but is overall less important. An exploratory analysis of dairy costing data carried out as part of the SOLID project confirms milk from forages as a key performance indicator for organic milk production. It shows that five farms performing well in terms of milk from forage seem all convinced that grazing management is important.